An Interview with a Female Bishop:
Bishop Ernestine C. Reems,
Center of Hope Church

This interview took place in the home of Dr. Reems only hours before she was consecrated as Bishop-- Sunday, September 25, 2000. Her home is situated on Malcolm Drive in the Oakland hills--a beautiful five-bedroom home easily appraised at a half million dollars or more in today's market. Upon entry, female parishioners worked busily preparing food and moving in and out with other activities.

Dr. Reems was gracious enough to grant this interview at a time she needed to be preparing herself for her consecration. Upon meeting her, she appeared to be a self-effacing woman who does not appear to have been in the ministry for 50 years--she has a youthfulness about her.

She sat quietly waiting, as a parishioner escorted me to the location of our interview. I had seen her many times in the church, on TV, and we all have heard her on the radio, but as I was escorted, I spoke to her and walked by not recognizing her, until she gently said, "I'm here."

Dr. Reems is a person who is easy to talk with. She interviews well--no assumptions that an interviewer will try to harm her in an interview, hence, she is relaxed and smiles easily. In fact, she overcomes you with her gentle quietness. But as the interview progresses, you feel the fire in her that has brought her to this pinnacle of her career.

She gave me permission to tape the interview. This interview is not transcribed sequentially, i.e., Q & A's, but as a categorical composite interview.
                                 ___________________

Gibbs:
Dr. Reems, how do you feel about this occasion of your consecration as Bishop?

Bishop Reems:
I feel that it is a great responsibility and that God has elevated me to this position for His glory. I think all that we do should be for the glory and honor of God. I had received word from great ministers of God that He would take me to another level, but I never anticipated this; I never even aspired to be a Bishop. One's work, however, speaks for you. So God has elevated me to this position to, most of all, encourage women into the ministry.

I find that God will honor and bless you if you do as he says: "If you humble yourself, I will exalt you." This position is a great responsibility because it is a place and position of service. And I know that to him who is given much, much is required.

Gibbs:
Are you with the Church of God in Christ now, and do you see your role here as a pioneer?

Bishop Reems:
No, I'm not with the Church of God in Christ. With them I could not be a preacher, a pastor, and certainly not a bishop, But I was brought up in the Church of God in Christ; in it a woman can only be an Evangelist or a Missionary. And they are losing some very good people because of that restriction. No woman today is going to go through Seminary and get a Masters degree or a Doctorate degree and  just be an Evangelist, a Missionary, or a Sunday School teacher. I'm not demeaning these positions; I am just saying that a woman who prepares herself much, as those degrees indicate, has been given much, so much is expected of her, and she also expects much more than what they will allow. As a result, the COGIC is losing some of their best people. As you know, 90% of the church members are women.

For God to elevate me to bishop, this is a first for me and also a  challenge to me-- am I strong enough to accept the opposition and rejections that will be thrown up against me? You know, they said that I couldn't preach, let alone be a pastor, but I stepped out years ago and said that I am going to be a pastor. I decided that I was going to pastor in an area of drugs, prostitution and crime. And I said that I'm going to do a work for the Lord. I called my work, the Center of Hope. That's what I wanted to do, provide a center of hope in the midst of despair.

I didn't ask for this, but some years ago Apostle Richard D. Hinton organized a group called MIA-- Monument of Faith, International Assembly. He said, let's just plant churches and help young pastors. I have been a part of that movement. We have approximately 50 churches that we have planted. He asked me to be a part of his work because he wanted to do wonderful things in the community. He recognized that I had been doing these things so he wanted me to be a part--to help him and also to show how these things can be done. So we have a global work for God.

Gibbs:
Are you the first female bishop in MIA, and do you have a diocese? 

Bishop Reems:
I am the first female, yes. I don't have a diocese as such, but I have churches under me. I have planted churches in the Bay Area, and I have about some 15 churches that want to join up with me.

Gibbs:
Will your consecration as Bishop impact your church or just you?

Bishop Reems:
I think it will impact the church and myself. I think that it is a challenge to get out and do more for God. I want to say, to all, but especially to women, keep your self esteem and be faithful to God. One thing that you can see about me, I have been faithful to God. I have not been up one year and down the next year. I have been faithful to God. 

For some 50 years, I was leading the ministry in the Ephesians Church of God In Christ. Dad [Bishop E. E. Cleveland, noted pastor and community leader, and Bishop Reems' father] was the pastor, but I was the preacher and the go-getter. I was the one on the radio and the TV. I was out into the streets pulling people into the church and off drugs and prostitution. So this elevation did not come to me suddenly, but this has come as a result of my faithfulness and consistency to God and his work.

This generation needs consistency. I have seen that, although I have not been accepted by all--the Boys club still hasn't received me.

Gibbs:
That is an area I would like to ask about: How do you think this positions you with the Church of God in Christ and other churches that say, one, women should not preach, two, they should not be pastors, and three, they certainly should not be bishops?

Bishop Reems:
I just came back from Los Angeles where I was speaking in a Church of God in Christ, and they said: "Oh thank the Lord, we are so happy to have Dr. Reems...oh, no, she is Bishop Reems now. Isn't God good?" I have the respect of most of their Bishops. They say to me, "Ernestine, you deserve it. Whatever God wants to give you, take it."

The younger generation doesn't care. They think that it is just great. My young people say that our pastor is a Bishop. I have a church full of young people right now.  Young people are so wonderful; they see it as something in Christ that they can aspire to. They feel that if God has done it for Pastor Reems, he can do it for them.

When God made Adam, he made the female Adam to help the male Adam. We don't have to be the head, but if God should elevate you there, then you are there. Deborah had no intentions of going out to lead the children of Israel as a judge. But God determined that he wanted her to be in that position. Who are we to resist God? 

I did not aspire to this position. I had been asked by other denominations into this work--they said, it's time for you to be a bishop. But I have always looked at a bishop as masculine. But God spoke to me and said that I promised to bless you 32 years ago. You walked in tears, pain, and hurt, and being misunderstood and many churches and denominations didn't accept you. But I walked with you, and this is a blessing that you are to receive. That is the only way I received this.

Gibbs:
This seems to be a time of women--there seems to be a surge of women in leadership positions both spiritually and naturally. Would you comment on this?

Bishop Reems:
God  moves as He wills. I believe that there are seasons and times for blessings. I look at Tiger Woods and Venus and Serena Williams, and I see how God is again coming into Ethiopia [Black people throughout the world--the Scriptures say that Ethiopia shall stretch forth its hand to God.] and God is using us and placing us in leadership positions. I think that God is saying to women that He created them to help men, but He also wants to bring glory to His name through their ministries.

I believe that this is the season and time of blessings, and if women are willing to accept the challenges and suffer the risks that it’s going to take, God will use their lives.

Gibbs:
Do you think there is coming a season of equality of the genders?

Bishop Reems:
Yes, I do. Furthermore, I believe that if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, we would never be in this position. There would have been brother Adam and sister Adam. Her name was not Eve until they fell. So it was always God's purpose that we be equal and work together. In the African American community, many of our blessings go out the window; I have no reason to bash you and you have no reason to bash me. We are equal in God. He created both of us and gave both wisdom and minds to work for Him.

We should discontinue the idea that we are different. I want to go to the Baptist church, the Church of God in Christ, all the churches and praise God with them. In John 17, Jesus prayed that we be made one. I don't think that I need to box you into my Pentecostal space. 

Gibbs:
Who will perform your Consecration?

Bishop Reems:
Bishop James Everett of New Jersey.  He is one of the Bishops on the Board of MIA.... I will be the only female bishop on the governing Board of MIA.

Gibbs:
What is your goal, as the only female on that Board? Do you have a goal for increasing the number of females on the MIA Board?

Bishop Reems:
I think that my role is to share with them, to teach them that the Board accepts me as equal, and they think nothing about my being a woman. And, yes, I think that I should help other women become bishops.

Gibbs:
But you have been around a long time; do you think that it will take that long again to get other female bishops?

Bishop Reems:
No. I think there has to be an Elijah and Elisha mentoring process that must go on. You have to humble yourself--not be a foot mat, but humble yourself still. So there is training that needs to occur. There is work that needs to be done, and I strongly advocate education. I will propose these types of programs and in three to four years, there could be a second female bishop.

I will promote the idea in MIA that we reach out to younger women and  push them to go to Seminary and get the training that is necessary. We can't just get happy and our Bibles to preach without the training that should go along with it.

Gibbs:
How long do you think it will be before the Church of God in Christ promotes a female bishop?

Bishop Reems:
I think that it will take 6-8 years because of their long- entrenched beliefs. Women are not going to go to school and get PhD's to go downstairs and cook chicken. You can not keep good people that way.

I encouraged a young lady the other day to go over to the AME. They were going to put her through school. That's the same denomination that Vashti is in [Bishop Vasthi MacKenzie, the newly appointed female bishop]. She was a saved young woman who wanted to perfect her ministry.

I feel bad for the Church of God in Christ, that they are losing so many people. I knew Bishop Mason [Founder of that organization] as a girl; he anointed me, and I think that is why I am being blessed today--from his anointing many years ago.

I have a number of ministries that I have set up for female leadership. The E. C. Reems Ministry that is 10,000 strong; I have a conference in 2001 where we will address all the issues of women and men. My ministry addresses both the spiritual and the natural.  

Gibbs:
Is there anything I have not covered that you would like to address?

Bishop Reems:
I desire the prayers of all people in this new challenge and pray that God will allow me to remain here a few more years. I don't intend to leave Oakland because of this new position--I plan to retire from pastoral work right here in Oakland, but I have further plans after retirement. 

I would like to retire and open this large, five-bedroom home into a retreat center for young women of all races and nationalities. []

Home